steadykev
Junior Pilot
.....of course it`ll fly....
Posts: 166
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Post by steadykev on Feb 3, 2014 14:56:17 GMT
Hi JG, Thanks for the compliments. I am pleased with it, but it does look better in the photo`s than in the flesh Don`t get too excited about the box`s. One is full of bits and bobs of balsa and ply etc. and the other has got film covering in it. I wish there was a kit under there ( I do keep looking...lol) but I`m still saving up. Trouble is i`m itching to get building again. Take care Kev
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Post by essexbof on Nov 7, 2014 17:40:32 GMT
I have never used washout on any model that I have designed, on others that are not originally my own, I tend to follow what they say. Personally do not like the idea of the wing operating at different angles of attack, as it seems inefficient to me. I seldom use tip chords of less than 6" but before someone points it out the Watts Up does have a tip of 4" chord, on the 100S & 120" versions, but this is covered by having sweep forward on the mean chord line that in theory stops tip stalling. Seems to work OK
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Post by Jef on Nov 7, 2014 18:09:04 GMT
That's interesting, Brian.
Did you ever design free-flight models?
Jef
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Post by essexbof on Nov 7, 2014 20:52:08 GMT
Yes and seldom used washout on them, plan attached of one I built about 5 years ago I still have called Reprise Attachments:reprise.PDF (323.14 KB)
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Post by Jef on Nov 8, 2014 15:10:40 GMT
Hi Brian.
Nice looking design, thanks for sharing that. Wish I could understand how the sweep forward prevents tip stalling. Any theories as to why it works?
See you tomorrow!
Jef
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Post by essexbof on Nov 9, 2014 22:25:53 GMT
Further to this discussion, I had to get a piece that was written some 60 years ago in the Aeromodeller Annual 1956/7, on Buzzard Wings page 69, quote:-
With negative sweep(buzzard wings) the wing tips are relieved of static stress, as lift generation is higher at the centre section of the wing. This produces the same effect as washout does on a normal straight wing.. Effects of buzzard wing layout on spiral dive(peel off) & lateral stability(yawing) is quite favourable. Wing washout can be eliminated through use of the buzzard wing lay out and if lateral stability were sufficient, one can imagine giving wash in to both tips. This would bring about an optimum of overall lift generated.
I would not go for the last bit IMHO The whole article runs for 7 pages and details a lot of interesting stuff, that sadly we no longer get in current publications. A lot of 2 seat glider K13's etc mainly used it to accommodate the second person up front, conversant with CG position. I used it on my first glider design for radio in 1975, Summer Wind, after reading this article, and the bonus was that the CG was well forward so ballast could be loaded easily from the canopy area. Picture of of Nigel Dell with his Summer Wind which shows the plan form and how big it was then Attachments:
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Post by Jef on Nov 9, 2014 23:26:03 GMT
Thank you Brian.
I can see the reason for forward sweep defeating tip stalls now. I can visualise an increase in lift over the centre of the wing, brought about by the swept forward wing. Thanks for finding that article and typing it out for me.
Still can't make myself believe that a straight leading edge and a swept forward trailing edge has the same effect that a swept forward leading edge would have. Just can't. Give me time and I am sure that the penny will drop!
I like the idea that you voiced at the Royal Tiger, I can see that a rudder enforced turn would benefit from forward sweep, stabilised in a similar way to dihedral, in that with dihedral the inboard wing-half is presenting more effective lifting area, and with the swept forward wing, the inboard wing is presenting a larger effective wingspan (both relative to the outboard wing-half).
Best regards,
Jef
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Post by JG on Apr 6, 2016 11:50:25 GMT
As a rough rule of thumb, if washout is required, around 1mm (on each tip) for each 10inches of span should do it. So on a 55" span model, 5-6mm would be sensible. Personally I would build the washout in, and check it after covering, otherwise, through the everyday variations in temperature and humidity, the wing will tend towards straightening itself. Hope this helps. Jef Jef - So a 100" model would need around 9-10 mm of washout if i am correct .
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Post by Jef on Apr 6, 2016 21:42:56 GMT
Hi JG.
A lot of modern designs do not need any wash out, at all
What model are we talking about?
Yes, you got it right though, IMHO, 8-10mm would be about right for an 100"S that requires wash out.
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Post by JG on Apr 7, 2016 11:21:46 GMT
Jef - I am building a Cambrian Elan and i think it needs washout as when turning it just drops if it's slowed down too much, it needs speed to turn nice
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Post by Jef on Apr 7, 2016 21:15:20 GMT
Yes.
Some models just have a high stall speed, but if it needs to fly faster in the turn than in a straight line, then a bit of washout in the tips will help cure that.
HTH
Jef
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Post by Jef on Apr 7, 2016 21:18:38 GMT
you can add washout after the build, in the covering stage, but washout made during the build is more likely to stay put.
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Post by JG on Apr 9, 2016 18:41:08 GMT
Jef - I have built the washout in to the tip, i will get a few pictures on the finished result
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